Were the sonnets autobiographical?

[shaxper]

Admittedly, I know very little about the sonnets.  I'm curious to know whether or not sonnets were traditionally auotbiographical?  Scholars frequently assume that Shakespeare's sonnets were, but does this come from a simple desire to know more about him, or is it a legitamite assumption?  If he was writing his sonnets for a patron, isn't it likely that the sonnets were written to please the patron?

[Harry]

I think it very likely that a primary purpose of the sonnets was to please a patron. If that patron was Southampton, this makes sense. Shakespeare wrote the two long poems and dedicated them to Southampton. This got him into Southampton's circle, apparently, then nothing. Surely a patron would expect more great literary works from his client. But, after Lucrece, Shakespeare concentrated his efforts on plays. Maybe the sonnets were partially an attempt to keep his hand in with Southampton's literary crowd.

I imagine a blend of fiction and biography in the sonnets. I think any attempt to construct a sonnet "story" is doomed to failure. Perhaps some of the sonnets were written about real events. Others may have been entirely fictional. Many may have been partially real and partially fiction.

I find the sonnets best read and understood as singles or as small groups where they are clearly tied together. Don't try for larger patterns.

When I first started to read the sonnets, I didn't take to them. They seemed too inward looking, almost precious. But, I find, they grow. Here, Shakespeare really did write with multiple meanings and layers. The sonnets were intended for quiet study and not to be shouted from a stage. Once you get past the convolutions of expression, you'll find a lot here.

[shaxper]

I've been meaning to read them more carefully.  I think you've just given me a very good reason to.  I'm now looking forward to it.  Thank you  

[Bardolph]

In Amy Ulen's DZ Harry and I participated in a very enjoyable step by step discussion of the procreation Sonnets.  This proved very illuminating.  I would be interesting in a discussion that looked into the later Sonnets, such as the Dark Lady Sonnets.  I think that those have a good chance of actually being autobiographical.  

[shaxper]

Do I hear a suggestion for the next reading club?  

[Harry]

Yes, that discussion was fun. We discussed the "procreation" sonnets and I, at least, learned a few things.

Some of the Dark Lady sonnets are very funny--in my opinion at least.   We get to see the sexy playful side of Shakespeare. I also think they tie together some of the larger themes of the sonnets. I think that Shakespeare sees love for the Dark Lady as sexual and, therefore, sinful. This is contrasted (very explicitly in #144) with the asexual (pure) love for the Youth.

And, in #136, we have a signature ("my name is Will") which ought to give pause, though it doesn't, to those who think Shakespeare's real name was "Ed(ward DeVere)" or "Francis (Bacon)."

[Ganymede]

I think any author's life necessarily seeps into their writing-- however, most often it's very subtle.  The sonnets may hint at Shakespeare's life, but they certainly do not clearly or literally portray Shakespeare's life.  Perhaps they point more to general personality traits than hard facts about Shakespeare the man.  Yet, there may be facts imbedded within-- only Shakespeare himself (and his nearest and dearest) would know for sure.

[Harry]

That is the point. We have no guide posts to know where autobiography ends and fiction begins.

Shall we begin a discussion? I'm game. As I recall, the discussions seemed to work best when a participant posted the sonnet and a discussion. Others then chimed in with their own discussions. The sonnets, because they are short, lend themselves to being posted in their entirety. I suggest one sonnet per thread rather than a single thread with all the sonnets. It would work either here or under the book club discussion. There seemed to be a value in going through them in numerical order. That way, all the sonnets are considered and discussed, not just the "great" ones.

[litluver]

Harry, I think that is a great idea. I have always loved the sonnets. I would like to see some discussion on them too.

[shaxper]

Fantastic!!  I've been hoping you or Bardolph would lead us in some Sonnet discussions!  Would you like to begin it?  As I've said before, my knowledge of the Sonnets is sadly insufficient, so I would love to learn from some wonferful discussions!  ;D