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Post by Harry on Jun 12, 2002 22:39:22 GMT -5
Thou art as tyrannous, so as thou art As those whose beauties proudly make them cruel; For well thou know'st to my dear doting heart Thou art the fairest and most precious jewel. Yet, in good faith, some say that thee behold, Thy face hath not the power to make love groan: To say they err I dare not be so bold, Although I swear it to myself alone. And to be sure that is not false I swear, A thousand groans, but thinking on thy face, One on another's neck, do witness bear Thy black is fairest in my judgment's place. In nothing art thou black save in thy deeds, And thence this slander, as I think, proceeds.
I'll be out of town for several days, so I thought I'd post this one now. I'm looking forward to reading what others make of it.
This sonnet strikes me as transitional. Up until now the Dark Lady may have been black in hair and, perhaps, dark complexioned, but I don't recall any hint that she is black in deed. Even Sonnet 129 talks about sex as sin (as I interpret it), but it doesn't say that the Dark Lady herself is sinful.
Although no specific deeds are laid against the Dark Lady (that will come later), she is called "tyrannous" and line 11 says, "in nothing art thou black save in thy deeds. She takes advantage of his "doting heart." Though the Poet still loves her and defends her as beautiful, there seems to be a suggestion that she is not virtuous.
Most of the sonnet, though, seems a continuation of the "black is beautiful" theme of earlier sonnets.
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Post by shaxper on Jun 12, 2002 22:51:21 GMT -5
Somehow, this strikes me as resembling Silvius attempting to woo (and yet express contempt for) Phoebe. Both Phoebe and the Dark Lady seem to be less than overwhelmingly beautiful, yet both are as tyranous "As those whose beauties proudly make them cruel". Is the poet's contempt and labeling of evil deads a response to her refusal of his love, or the result of some lovers' disagreement?
This passage particularly confuses me:
A thousand groans, but thinking on thy face, One on another's neck, do witness bear Thy black is fairest in my judgment's place.
I'll readily admit I don't understand it, especially "One on another's neck". Is this a realization that she is a separate entity apart from him, her head on her own neck instead of on his? Perhaps some double-meaning in terms of necking or making out, putting one's face on another's neck? The rest of the passage makes no sense to me whatsoever. I don't know how to read it.
enjoy your trip, by the way! I'll miss these daily sonnets.
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Post by Ganymede on Jun 12, 2002 23:23:07 GMT -5
A thousand groans, but thinking on thy face, One on another's neck, do witness bear Thy black is fairest in my judgment's place. Maybe Shakespeare is suggesting separating her head from her unvirtuous body. The body, especially the woman's, is often considered to be the site of sin. Perhaps Shakespeare is blaming her body for causing the unchastity, and thinking that if only her face were on another's body, she'd be "fair" and no longer "dark" in lust and sin.
Also it seems that Shakespeare thinks he sees in this Dark Lady a beauty that others miss, perhaps because of her "profession" or reputation:
Yet, in good faith, some say that thee behold, Thy face hath not the power to make love groan: To say they err I dare not be so bold, Although I swear it to myself alone.
Unlike Shakespeare, these others cannot separate her face from her body, damning her entirely. I feel a resentment of the Dark Lady for her dark deeds that make him seem a liar for calling her beautiful.
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Post by Harry on Jun 12, 2002 23:34:36 GMT -5
The first part of the trip won't be a lot of fun. It's all business--a tour of gas stations of central Michigan. But, I get to go fishing over the weekend and that should compensate.
The passage is difficult. Here's what I make of it (with a lot of help from Evans).
Reading it again, I wonder if the Poet isn't having an orgasm. "A thousand groans" (of desire) only (while?) thinking about your face come quickly together (like horses running neck-to-neck toward a finish line?) bear witness that to me black is fairest.
There may be a problem with punctuation. I see it differently in other editions and punctuation can make a big difference in sonnets.
Evens, in his note on "One on another's neck" quotes extensively from Nashe's The Unfortunate Traveler (1594) which was dedicated to Southampton. "Passion upon passion would throng one on anothers necke, he wold praise her beyond the moone and starres, and that so sweetly and ravishingly as I perswade my self he was more in love with his own curious forming fancie than her face; and truth it is, many become passionate lovers onely to winne praise to theyr wits." Nashe even describes a Diamante who may be the original of the Dark Lady.
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The_Turtle
Denizen
Nay, faith, let not me play a woman; I have a beard coming
Posts: 52
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Post by The_Turtle on Jun 13, 2002 4:35:39 GMT -5
I wouldn't go as far as that, Harry, but I do agree that 'One on another's neck' refers to the groans. They follow eachother rapidly. Although, going far out on a limb here, 'do witness bear' might even support your orgasm theory. Wit is the Dutch word for 'white' and I think that even without that knowledge 'wit' sufficiently resembles 'white' to allow this line to be read as follows: the groans bear/bring something that is white. Need I go further? However, as I said, this seems to be reading into. On the other hand it has been claimed that no I or O is to be trusted in Shakespeare as meaning just I or O. Anybody anything to say about the 'Nothing' in line 13?
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Post by Harry on Jun 13, 2002 6:15:13 GMT -5
Well... Evans footnotes the line as saying "In no way art thou black." Do you suppose that "nothing" means "no thing" in the sense of Sonnet 20, "By adding one thing to my purpose nothing?" I think this might be a good time to make a couple of more general observations. The economy of expression forced by the compact formality of the sonnet form can be both the glory and the despair of the reader/student. It's almost a game to see how much meaning Shakespeare can compress into so few words. On the other hand, when Shakespeare is far ahead of us, trying to puzzle his meaning out can be difficult. That's one of the nice things about a forum like this. We can puzzle it out together. If you were expecting the sonnets to be an endless series of variations on "Roses are red..." I hope you have been pleasantly surprized. The sonnets are puzzling, inspiring, shocking, but never boring. More chills and thrills (not to mention a few steamy sex scenes) await us.
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Juliet
Denizen
There's many a man hath more hair than wit.
Posts: 53
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Post by Juliet on Jun 24, 2002 20:33:13 GMT -5
Hmmm... "One on another's neck"
And to be sure that is not false I swear, A thousand groans, but thinking on thy face, One on another's neck, do witness bear Thy black is fairest in my judgment's place.
I guess "one on another's neck," being, "one after the other," does make the most sense in this case, although at first I thought that the "one" groan on "another's neck" was talking more directly about glancing & groaning at another person, which would make sense with the previous talk about other people's judgments, and then, "in my judgement's place." But in that case, why didn't he say face? Too repetitive ? The constraints of rhyme and meter do make things confusing for us...
But yes, Harry, the sonnets are wonderful, if tantalizing. We know so little about Shakespeare's life, and unlike the plays, there is little obvious plot here. It's like trying to piece together someone's life from a hundred or so (well composed) voice mail messages or birthday cards. But luckily, they're rewarding in themselves, as well.
~Juliet~
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