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Post by Harry on Jun 11, 2002 20:16:33 GMT -5
My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun; Coral is far more red than her lips' red; If snow be white, why then her breasts are dun; If hairs be wires, black wires grow on her head. I have seen roses damasked, red and white, But no such roses see I in her cheeks, And in some perfumes is there more delight Than in the breath that from my mistress reeks. I love to hear her speak, yet well I know That music hath a far more pleasing sound. I grant I never saw a goddess go; My mistress when she walks treads on the ground. And yet, by heaven, I think my love as rare As any she belied with false compare And now for something completely different. This is one of the best known of the Dark Lady sonnets in part because high school teachers can assign it without worrying too much. The Poet is in a much more playful mood than in 129. The sonnet is a send-up of the usual sonnet hyperbole--the beloved is described as having eyes that flash like the sun, breasts white as snow, breath like perfume, and so forth. Here the poet says that his mistress doesn't have any of the traditional marks of beauty but, in the couplet, he says she is as beautiful to him as any of the beauties falsely described by other poets. I once heard of a guy who recited this to his girl on the theory that she'd be flattered. (It takes all kinds. ) She wasn't. The most jaring bit, to me, is line 4, "If hairs be wires, black wires grow on her head." As I understand it, it was common for a poet to compare his beloved's hair to fine golden wire. I think the rest of the sonnet is pretty straight-forward once it is realized what the Poet is trying to do.
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The_Turtle
Denizen
Nay, faith, let not me play a woman; I have a beard coming
Posts: 52
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Post by The_Turtle on Jun 12, 2002 1:37:18 GMT -5
What you call 'traditional marks of beauty' I would rather refer to as tired out metaphors. I always thought that was what Shakespeare intended to expose in this sonnet. Hence the line if hairs be wires. It may not be a very flattering metaphor, but at least it is an original one.
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Post by shaxper on Jun 12, 2002 17:16:18 GMT -5
I am familiar with this one (who isn't) and it's been my understanding that the poem's negations serve three purposes.
1. Negate the Dark Lady.
She's not typical and ideal. She doesn't measure up to the standard.
2. Negate the cliche.
But the metaphors are never really true; poetry does not live up to the thing it attempts to describe. I believe this is the point The_Turtle was making.
3. Negate the standard.
Perhaps the Dark Lady is all the more unique and beautiful for not conforming to the tired cliches.
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Post by Harry on Jun 12, 2002 20:38:52 GMT -5
Okay, I'll buy "tired metaphors." But, do you think it's just here, or in the entire Dark Lady cycle where he exposes the cliches? Does this make it more or less likely that the Dark Lady was a real person? I mean, it isn't just in this sonnet where she is "Dark."
I think the puzzle of this sonnet isn't so much in what the Poet says, as it is in what it really means.
I agree that the idea that no one lives up to the ideal of beauty is very much central to this sonnet. It's almost a modern theme. Men and women spend much time and effort "sland'ring creation" and otherwise trying to look like an impossible ideal of beauty. Not every guy is a "hunk" and not every woman a beauty model, most are just average. Sort of like the Dark Lady. The beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
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Post by shaxper on Jun 12, 2002 23:02:19 GMT -5
Okay, I'll buy "tired metaphors." But, do you think it's just here, or in the entire Dark Lady cycle where he exposes the cliches? Does this make it more or less likely that the Dark Lady was a real person? I mean, it isn't just in this sonnet where she is "Dark." This seems to be the only sonnet we've discussed that overtly points out the disparity between "tired metaphors" and reality. Whether his mistress's eyes are the only set that isn't like the sun, or the entire metaphor is a sham is up to debate. However, having now read Sonnet 131, in which he makes the point that his mistress is not beautiful enough to be tyranous, I'm inclined to believe that, in fact, he is not attacking the metaphor; merely stating that HIS mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun. Interesting how Sonnet 130 seems to praise her at the end for being different than those mistresses who do have eyes like the sun, yet 131 has an angrier tone in which he seems to hold that difference against her (you're not allowed to be this much of a tyrant unless you're better looking). The mood swing suggests to me that these sonnets were at least partially autobiographical. I can almost see him trying to appease her with 130, then being angered by her continuing to be difficult and writing 131 while incensed. The fact that he is directly addressing her in 131 seems to enhance this feeling. It is powerful and direct; not thoughtful and distant like the others. Perhaps I should have posted all this in the 131 discussion, but I think it strongly affects how we read 130.
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Post by Ganymede on Jun 12, 2002 23:35:48 GMT -5
I think he's definitely attacking the tradition of cliches here. The other poets who compare their lovers eyes to the sun and their voices to music are lying to flatter their lovers. Although no one can deny the power of love to transform a plain face into a beautiful one in the eyes of the lover, these poets' comparisons are overblown and exposed as obviously false. Shakespeare distinguishes himself by placing himself as firmly on the ground as his beloved. He understands that she isn't traditionally beautiful and he won't lie. Yet she is beautiful to him, and that is what matters. This poem always makes me laugh because I think of all the poems out there written about beautiful beloved women and the ideal portraits painted there, and then think about what these women probably really looked like, having not bathed in months and using perfume to cover up there hideous body odor and bad breath! Although Shakespeare paints a somewhat unflattering portrait, his portrait is more accurate and therefore more true. I can see the Dark Lady wandering the streets of London as a real person, whereas the ladies painted in other sonnets seem so ethereal that I can't imagine them ever existing in reality. His sonnet also does justice to his love for the Dark Lady. He sees her beauty even when others do not.
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Post by Harry on Jun 12, 2002 23:48:24 GMT -5
I think the point of the couplet here is that the women praised by other poets are not as beautiful as described (belied with false compare). The Dark Lady is as beautiful as they, though she doesn't have blonde hair and blue eyes. Of course, she may not even be that beautiful. In a later sonnet, the Poet says he perjured himself when he called her beautiful.
I think the point in 131 is that she is just as tyrannous as those women who do meet the traditional standards of beauty and thus can afford it.
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Juliet
Denizen
There's many a man hath more hair than wit.
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Post by Juliet on Jun 25, 2002 0:34:50 GMT -5
This sonnet definitely deserves its fame. Not only does it burst the cliches, but it bespeaks a much deeper affection than a more conventional praising sonnet. Unlike that girlfriend (who was crazy and out of it) I'd be flattered to have someone recite this poem to me. Unlike most exagerrated, fanciful sonnets, it deals not in hyperbole but in reality. It acknowleges human frailty, human imperfection, and yet it still holds to the same loving message. It shows a much more mature and enduring love than the love most sonnets profess; while they show the first stages of passion, when the loved one is all perfections and desirability, this shows love that has recognized the faults of the loved one, and yet continues. While it's pleasant to have someone think we're perfect and love us for that, ultimately it's more comforting to be loved by someone who knows we're imperfect and flawed, and yet loves us still.
This sonnet is so far beyond the trite early sonnets to Shakespeare's youth. That, in itself, is a potent argument for the autobiographical theory. Shakespeare certainly matures, and in my opinion, the dark lady, however faulty, is good for him. She brings out more humor in his poetry (this and sonnet 128). It's fascinating to guess at the setting of the sonnets. I can picture this one being written in the Dark Lady's company, or shortly after. She makes deprecating comments about the falsity of poets in general, the ridiculousness of sonnets, and he scrawls of this one as a witty, but loving, rebuttal.
~Juliet~
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Post by Harry on Jun 25, 2002 22:02:25 GMT -5
Certainly the Dark Lady sonnets exhibit a wider range of emotions than the Youth sonnets. With the Youth, love is always perfect and, should the Youth not be faithful, why the Poet will unfailingly forgive him. With the Dark Lady we see love, tenderness, sex, disgust, anger, and quite a bit of humor. There is more to come.
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